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Suspension Basics

Date sent:        Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:48:52 -0700
From:            ebert@newton.apple.com (Bob Ebert)
Subject:          Re: GPz suspension

At 4:59 PM 9/15/97, Adrian Leeds wrote:
As an aside, can anyone give me a moron's explanation of pre-load and
re-bound damping as they relate to the rear suspension.

...I've unfortunately learned a lot about the GPz suspension over the
summer, I'll take a stab...

Shock basics:

There's a spring around the outside, which supports the weight of the bike,
gear, and rider when sitting in a neutral position.  Inside the spring is
the actual shock absorber, which is an oil filled canister with a valved
piston inside.  It's purpose is to provide resistance to changes in the
height of the shock, and it resists changes in both the compression and
decompression direction.  That is, when you go over a bump, the tendency is
for the wheel to push up into the bike.  The shock absorber resists this
sudden change, while still giving somewhat.  After going over the bump, the
wheel and bike fall back down onto the road, assisted by the spring trying
to lengthen the shock.  The result (when everything is working right) is
that the wheel stays on the road as much as possible, and you don't get
shaken off the bike by every little ripple and bump.

Pre-load slightly changes the length of the spring, and the effect is to
increase or decrease the ride height.  Adjusting it up (increasing the
numbers) shortens the distance between the spring supports.  When you sit
on the bike, the spring is normally compressed by some amount--that is,
it's not fully extended to the length that the shock will permit.  If you
put more weight on, or ride with a partner, the bike will naturally ride
lower.  Turning up the pre-load compensates for that.

It's a common misconception that pre-load "stiffens" the spring.  It
doesn't.  You need a different (stiffer/bigger) spring to do that.

The rebound damping adjusts the ease with which the shock returns to a
neutral position _after_ being compressed.  Higher settings mean it takes
longer to return to neutral.  This counteracts the tendency for the bike to
bounce up and down after going over a bump, which is a natural result of
having a spring in the system.

The rebound damping also does nothing to "stiffen" the suspension.  The
compression resistance is controlled by a different set of valves, which
are preset at the factory and not adjustable.  Increasing the rebound
damping can make the bike feel stiffer, especially when going over rough
terrain, because you can hit 2nd and subsequent bumps with the shock
already compressed, and so it won't compress as much as it would if it was
unloaded.

GPz particulars:

The GPz suspension is perfectly tuned from the factory (as I recall from my
test rides of newer ones), but the shock absorber is made from aluminum,
which has a tendency to wear.  Also, over time, the oil in the shock can
lose viscosity, which decreases the stiffness.

My bike's got about 24000Km/15000mi on it, and the shock is shot.  (The
suspension shop tells me the stock shock is only good for about 10000
miles.)  No one makes a ready aftermarket shock for the GPz, though Penske
will custom build one for about $700.

The suspension shop really recommended having the aluminum shock body anodized,
to vastly improve the life of the oil.  I could get the stock shock
revalved, anodized, and have a stiffer spring put on for about $300.  To
add an external reservoir to it would be about another $100.  That's quite a bit
cheaper than the Penske system, but on the other hand it would take 3 weeks.

As of this morning, I'm still debating.  The shop screwed up (again!) when
I had it in for service last time, and didn't get all the measurements they
needed to have a new shock built.  So, I've got to either leave the bike at
the suspension shop for a week and a half and they'll get the Penske system
made and installed, or take off the stock shock myself (not too hard) and
take it to them for rebuilding.  Either way, I don't get to ride for a
couple of weeks... well, unless I borrow my roommate's CBR600F2...

                        --Bob

From: Bob Ebert <ebert@newton.apple.com
Date: Thursday, October 09, 1997 2:20 PM
Subject: More rear suspension (was: GP Trip Report)

At 5:22 PM 10/7/97, Adrian Leeds wrote:
Preload of three gave too harsh a ride two-up with luggage - setting two  was better. On the way back (solo) I put it back to one. Still thought the  ride was a bit harsh. I suspect that the recommended tyre pressures aretoo  high - I think I'll trade tyre wear for comfort.

Changing the suspension preload won't do anything to change the "harshness" of the ride.  All the preload does is change the ride height, higher setting means higher bike, which is generally better for more weight because it keeps the suspension 'centered' when loaded.  That's because the rear shock will always be compressed somewhat, so changing the spring preload just moves that 'neutrally' compressed height up or down.

Setting the rebound dampers up may make the ride a bit harsher, because the shock will take longer to return to neutral after going over a bump.

Tire pressure will probably make the biggest difference in harshness with the GPZ.  The book says 36 front 41 rear, but I think that's too high and there's been agreement from the list.  I run at 34 front and 38 rear, others run lower--I think 31/36 was the lowest reported.

Even more rear suspension details:

I asked the shop, and springs are measured by how much force it takes to compress them 1 inch (in the SAE system anyway.)  The stock spring off my GPZ was measured at 507 lbs.  There are linkages in the suspension, so that doesn't translate directly to how much weight you put on the bike, and there's obviously the front suspension doing some work as well.

Let's see, some back-of-the-envelope numbers... The bike is 530 lbs dry, add about 55 lbs for gas, oil, and other fluids for a total of 585 lbs of bike.  With no rider the weight is only slightly biased towards the rear (about 15 lbs more on the back), and I'd guess the rider's mass is about 65% on the back.  For me (210 lbs), that means about 440 lbs on the rear tire.

The shop manual says preload setting 1 is for a 150 lb rider, so if we knew the travel distance of the rear shock we could calculate how much weight each additional adjustment would support...  let's see, the preloads only move the spring about 1/8 of an inch (a guess), which compensates for about 65 lbs of spring force at the shock, so the total range on the preload is only about 200 lbs worth at the shock, which is a bit more at the wheel/on the bike.  Seems like enough...

Seems like we need to know more about how rear wheel weight translates to weight at the shock to really get the numbers right.  I suppose you could get that by measuring how much the shock compresses when you add a known weight to the bike directly over the rear wheel.  Sounds like a pain.

How about a different approach: if it feels good, ride it!  :)

                         --Bob

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Touring Impressions

From:             "Fraser, Jim" <fraserj@aecl.ca
Subject:          30,000 km GPZ evaluation
Date sent:        Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:01:05 -0400

Hi Gals and Guys!

My wife Traci and I just returned from our 4 week trip through Canada
and the U.S. and I thought I'd post some impressions etc. on the GPZ,
and possibly a short trip report later.  Remember this is only MY humble
opinion and the rest of you may think I'm a uneducated dolt after
reading this, but here goes.

I actually put only 25000 of the 30000 km that the bike has racked up as
I bought the bike this spring with about 5000km on it.

First observation:

  This Bike Is Awesome

(this should be our GPZ slogan/motto)

Trip Stuff

The GPZ was loaded up with Krauser hardbags (tools, clothes, etc), tent
and Thermarest matress (in a waterproof canoe bag), and a Frank Thomas
magnetic tank bag (camera, water bottle, cooking pots/stove, candle
lantern, etc.).

Bike mods:  Givi windscreen, Pro Gel grips (half way through the trip),
Dunlop D205 tires, alarm (sorry I can't remember the make, but the alarm
does have an ignition and motion alarm).

GPZ Impressions

Ergonomics/Controls:  Excellent for anyone about my height (6'2" and
loooong arms, my nickname in highschool was 'Clyde'.  Remember the movie
"Every Which Way But Loose" with Clint Eastwood?) Leg/feet position is
excellent.  Footpegs too far forward or back can get uncomfortable on
long trips but the positioning of the GPZ pegs is in a nice neutral
location while still allowing sporty riding on your favorite twisty.
The gas tank isn't too bulky so your knees aren't forced apart and your
belt buckle doesn't scratch the tank.  Personally I find the handlebar
positioning perfect; ideal for long trips or canyon carving.  All
controls are easy to use and instrument panel is very clear (and I
really like the LCD clock).  The mirrors are good but I see a liitle too
much of my arms and not quite enough of the road. The stock seat is
pretty good, but a Corbin or Sargent (for looks and comfort) or a
Russell (for ulimate comfort and ugliness) would be a valuable
improvement to the bike.

Wind Protection:  With the taller Givi windscreen I would rate the
windprotection as adequate.  If you want better protection buy a
Goldwing or a Concours with a taller screen (I recently sat on a new
Concours and I'm not sure if it would be much better than my modified
GPZ, I'd have to ride one).  Most of the wind blast flows around my
hands, legs and torso. My head is in the wind, but there is no
buffeting.

Engine:  Fantastic. Smooth, very smooth.  Lots of torque.  Lots of
horsepower.  If I keep my speed to legal limits (55 to 65 mph) I was
getting about 50 miles per U.S. gallon while fully loaded on our trip.
If I was doing 80mph though, fuel economy dropped to about 39 miles per
U.S. gallon.  Still very respectable, and just as good as my wifes
Zephyr 750.  Hard to believe, but true.  The engine is easy to work on
but even though valve clearance checking is easy, it would be nice if a
screw and nut system was used for quick valve adjustments (ala 1200
Bandit, with a 7500 km adjustment interval) while on the road (I checked
my valves in Oregon, in a campground, and luckily all the clearances
were fine).  This valve adjustment 'problem' is the only thing that I
can think of that would limit the long distance (ie. touring south
america, europe, etc.) capabitlities of the GPZ for the do it
yourselfer, as you can't carry all of the various shims with you.  The
shim setup wouldn't stop you from taking a trip like this but it would
make things more dificult.

Final Drive/Transmission:  After ringing up 30,000km on the GPZ I'd have
to say that my opinion about chaindrive for touring bikes has changed.
I don't think that having shaft drive is as good as it's cracked up to
be, and chain drive (new ones at least) is better than a lot of people
think it is.  Let me explain.  I've looked into shaft drive a bit and
they are definately NOT maintenance free.  A reputable BMW dealer told
me that Beemer's need swingarm (some R only) and rear wheel lube change
every 10,000km and that some beemers (mostly K bikes) need the drive
shafts REMOVED and the splines greased/lubed/seals changed about every
30,000km-40,000km (or less) or serious damage can occur.  My drive chain
now has 30,000 km on it.  I use chainwax regularily (every second fill
up, sooner if it's raining as the lube is washed away quicker) and I
have very little if any noticeable chain wear. I should be able to
easily reach the 45,000km service life that the manual states the chain
will have if properly maintained.  Now don't get me wrong, I'd to love
to have a maintenance free final drive, it's just that there doesn't
seem to be one fitted to any bikes I know of (actually I've heard that
the Hardly's belt drive is pretty darn good.  OOhh it hurt to say that).
 There is a bit too much driveline lash, in the rear wheel, but mainly
in the tranny, and some gears seem to be worse than others.  This is
only a very minor grumble as the tranny is generally very good to
excellent.

Brakes:  Very good (linear fell, strong) but could be improved.  Lots of
chatter and thrumming. I've read  from fellow list members that EBC
regular pads improve this.  I'm going to switch soon.

Suspension: Excellent, but I think that after 30,000 km's my shock is
starting to get tired. The loaded up long trip was hard on it, I'm
guessing.  I'm very interested in the rebuild that some of the list
members have had done/are getting done.

Paint:  Beautiful Candy Persimmon Red, but have fun trying to colour
match it if you scratch it, it's a bugger.  The finish seems to be very
durable and well applied.

Tires:  If you plan on puting on lot's of miles, the Dunlop D205's are
good. Expect about 9,500 to 10,000 miles out of a set.  The 205's are
definately NOT Metzler MeZ1's though.  Handling is pretty good but the
bike will slide abit (not uncontrollably) sometimes while cornering hard
and it's easy to spin the rear tire (while on our trip I was passing a
truck on wet pavement while going up a hill, in 3rd I think, fully
loaded (120lbs + me 220lbs) and spun the rear easily but the only way
you could tell was by the rapid rise in RPM's (without the increase in
velocity) and the bike tracked perfectly).  If you don't put many miles
on your GPZ, or are rich, or need the best grip and handling, buy the
Metzlers (or Pirellies (SP?) as they are the same company).  The D205's
are good though if you respect their limits.

Overall:  I'd be hard pressed to find a better bike at any price.  If I
ever did trade the GPZ for another bike it would only be for a 'change
in scenery' as the GPZ is good at everything (well, except at being a
DP, it sucks at that).  I'll probably keep the GPZ Forever and buy other
bikes to fill specific niches; a big DP for exploring the backwoods, a
Ducati or Guzzi for some exotic, etc.

Well, I hope I didn't bore you all, and any/all criticism, comments and
or friendly flames are welcome.

Jim Fraser,
fraserj@aecl.ca
Rapides des Joachims, Quebec, Canada
'95 GPZ1100
'78 GS1000
'93 DR350P

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Cornering Basics

Regarding the GPz's cornering ability. The Gpz will lean over on
the right till the muffler scrape's, and on the left side till the side
stand scrapes. It does not have any problems with this at all, one word
of caution, work your way gradually from corner to corner, scraping
fixed stuff on the bike like mufflers and side stand is really not a
good idea over all.Cornering should be a smooth flowing motion from the
turn entry through the exit, coming down hard or abruptly on something
solid like a muffler could cause the bike to slide out from under you if

you react to it wrong. If you do scrape DO NOT HIT YOUR BRAKES OR BACK
OFF THE THROTTLE, gently apply a little throttle to allow your
suspension to center, this will raise the bike and stop the scraping.
(At least it does for me.)

The important things to master is smooth control of throttle and
braking, Not dragging (although Im guilty of leaving metal behind ). The

correct sequence approaching a corner is to brake, downshift(if needed).

then drop the bike into the corner at your selected turn point. If you
make any adjustments to speed abruptly, the bike and the rider react
poorly.

By the way most corner accidents are caused from brakes, not speed.
Braking while entering a corner can cause the front end to wash out
easily, This is very true on a GPz. I know this from frist hand
experience on my 95 GPz. Thats why I have a 96 now..... Any how you
might want to pick up a couple of Keith Codes books, they contain very
valuable information on controling your motorcycle, and make a excellant
primer to attending "Class Motorcycle School (Reg Pridmores)" or "Keith
Codes Superbike School".

IMHO, everyone who rides should attend one or both of these, Even us old
guys.

Paul
gpz1100@ptw.com

Electrical Basics

I recently (pre-GPz) bought an Eclipse vest. I was a little bummed to
find the battery on the GPz so inaccessible. Oh well. The vest draws
45
watts (pretty standard for a vest). The accessory leads on the bike
support up to 10amps. So:

1) can I safely hook up the vest to the accessory leads? (more
broadly,
how are amps and watts related?)
2) if the answer is no, what creative way have folks found to hook up
vests (and other electrics) to the GPz's entombed battery? And once
the
wire's hooked up to the battery, how the heck do you get it out from
under the seat?

Or should I chuck the whole business and mail back the vest?

Thanks!
David

David,

I'm glad you like your new bike, and I think that you'll find that the
longer you own it the more you will like it.  I use a Gerbing vest and I
had no problem hooking the leads directly to the battery.  Remove the
seat and right side cover.  Disconnect the lead under the seat (I think
you can slide the battery out to do this), and disconnect the other lead
under the side cover.  I fed my vest connection through the hole in the
top of the battery cover under the seat to the battery.  I then fed the
vest end of the lead between the battery box and the frame out above the
countershaft sprocket cover.  I didn't know that the GPz had an
accessory lead, but direct hookup to the battery minimizes voltage drop
due to long length leads(if you hook up directly to the battery make
sure your vest leads are fused).   The accessory leads at 80% load would
support about 14v x 8 amps or 112 watts, which is plenty for a vest (I
think my Gerbing is about 55 watts).

In a DC (direct current) circuit like cars and bikes watts(W)=
voltage(E) x amperage(I), or W=ExI or E=W/I or I=W/E.  Watts also equals
amperage squared x resistance (R) or voltage squared / resistance.
Ohm's law states that E=IxR or I=E/R or R=E/I (make a triangle with E at
the top corner, I at the bottom left corner and R at the bottom right
corner).

Example:you vest is 45 watts if you assume 12 v (actually your bike
supplies slightly over 14v) then the current drawn is 45w/12v or 3.75
amps.  If the manufacturer of the vest calculated the wattage of the
vest using 12v as the power source the vest resistance is R=E/I or
12v/3.75 amps or 3.2 ohms.  The resistance of the vest is the only
constant of the vest (the resistance will change a little with
temperature, but thats not an issue here) NOT the wattage.

Now if you have a 5 ft long wire that has a resistance of 0.02 ohms(this
is the measurement of resistance) per foot or 0.1 ohms total, then your
total circuit resistance equals 0.1ohms (positve lead) + 3.2 ohms (vest)
+ 0.1 ohms (negative lead) or 3.4 ohms.  Now, your amperage used by this
'circuit' is equal to I=E/R or 12v/3.4 ohms or 3.53 amps.  See how the
resistance of the leads caused the current of the circuit to drop?  The
higher the resistance the lower the current for a fixed input voltage.
So now you are stuck with only 3.53 amps getting through your vest, not
the "ideal" 3.75 amps so your effective vest wattage has dropped to I
squared x R or 3.53amps squared x 3.2 ohms (remember, the only constant)
or 39.9 watts, you've lost over 5 watts of heating power.  So the rule
of thumb is to use large diameter leads (lower resistance per foot) and
keep the leads short.  you could also use a remote relay to keep wire
lengths for your "power" items, like vests, auxilary lighting, etc.
short.

I apologize if this is long winded or confusing, but I hope it clears up
some of your questions.

Jim Fraser,
fraserj@aecl.ca
Rapides des Joachims, Quebec, Canada
'95 GPZ1100
'78 GS1000
'93 DR350P

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Performance Mods

Date sent:        Wed, 30 Jul 1997 23:15:56 -0700
From:             jeffrey m lohaus <charloul@pacbell.net

keelhaul@bellatlantic.net wrote:

jeffrey m lohaus wrote:

My name is Jeff LOHAUS e-mail address is charloul@pacbell.net   I have a
1995 GPz1100 that is highly modified and very fun to ride.  At this time
I have 55,000 miles on my baby, and have loved every minute of it.  Me:
I'AM 33 years old and work at Home Depot.

   55,000 miles....on a '95????? Now that is riding. What mods have you
done?

Bill

Bill,
      Hi, thanks for the welcome!   Yes 55,000 miles and yes highly
modified.  Lets see, where do I start.  First the engine is punched out
2mm over stock( 1109cc)with  12.5:1 compression.  2). 5 angle valve job
with a little port work. 3).  K&N individual filter pods with a "FACTORY
JET KIT" main jet size 145 & 150.  4).  one heavy duty clutch from
BARNETT.  5).  I also have done the chain conversion to a 530.  I have a
AFAM kit with a D.I.D chain and changed the rear sprocket to a 48 tooth
steel.  6).  I have also RACE TECH'd the front forks and rear shock and
added a remote resorvier also from RACE TECH. This was the best money I
ever spent.  7).  I have also picked up a 130/90 watt headlamp.  I also
run race compound MEZ1's front and rear(great tires).

Bob Sims wrote:

    Hey Guys,  There is another route to take you could get rid of
    that
old air box?  When I took my off I put all of it on a scale and it
all add up to 9lbs.  I put on K&N individual pods and rejetted the
carbs which was really easy because of no ram air.  The bike
actually runs better and gets about the same gas mileage.  I lost no

low end at all. I can pull a zx11 up to 120 or so.  Later..... or
any question feel free to ask..... Jeff 95 GPZ1100

Jeff,

Which model K&N filters did you buy?  Do they make specific models
to fit the GPZ?

Thanks, Bob
-----------
Bob Sims                      http://www.ldl.net/~rsims
Ft. Benning, GA
rsims@ldl.net

Bob, I don't remember the serial # but the size you need is 2.5" ( I.D.)
.  The ones I have are the shorter stuby filters.   No they do not make
ones for the GPZ1100.Jeff  1995 GPZ1100.

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Maintenance Tips

Does anybody on the list have any tips on special tools, or
procedures for the GPz?

The only things I can think of, at this moment, are...

1. When removing the coils, make SURE you don't drop the brass spacers
that support the coils. They can fall down, and are immediately
swallowed by the space under the starter, or alternator. Non magnetic,
and the clearances are such that you just can't get them out easily!
Trust me, I know!

2. The stock chain adjusters are inadequate. I use a pc of aluminum flat
bar with a line scribed on it to align the rear tire with the chain.
Seems to work much better.

3. I replaced the cotter pin on the rear axle with a hitch pin (kind of
shaped like a capital R). It just slides in, and won't fall out, but is
easily removable, and re-usable. Available at most hardware stores.

4. When adjusting the valves, I used a nylon toothbrush (the handle
part) to move some of the rockers. Most are easily held out of the way
for shim removal/replacement, but some are kind of awkward. The nylon
won't scratch anything, and worked for me.

5. When removing/installing the stock airbox, double check the hoses
connecting to it. I've had two experiences where the PCV hose (the big
one on the very top) wasn't in quite right, and that can allow
unfiltered air into the carbs.

6. When doing valve adjustments, you don't have to remove the ignition
side cover to get to the crank indicator. Remove the inspection plug,
and use the rear wheel to turn the crank, with the bike in gear, and on
the centerstand. This tip was brought to my attention by my local Kaw
dealer, and also someone on this list (I can't remember who). Thanks to
both!

Phil Keen

I am getting ready to have my dealer adjust the valves on the GPz and
was wondering if there is any "advice" of which I should provide him.
This dealer does not perform all that many valve adjustments.  The
mechanic that will do this work is very competent and particularly
thorough with things. Actually, I have gone a little further with this
adjustment than I should.  I think I should have done this around 6K but
I have about 7.3 K on the odometer.
Any information will be greatly appreciated.
Tripp
--------------------------------
Tripp, having done the valve adjustment myself, it is pretty simple, no
 special tools required.  The service manual calls for draining the
 coolant, but this is unnecessary as you can remove the valve cover
 without removing the coolant hoses.  Do not use sharp instruments to pry
 the valve cover off since this will gouge the aluminum and may cause
 future oil leaks.  If you are careful and the gasket is not too baked
 on, you can re-use the gasket.  Once the cover is off, you just need to
 measure the clearances, do the calculations, buy new shims and install
 them by sliding the rocker arms to the side, pop out the shims to be
 replaced with a telescoping magnet and install the new shims.  It is
 tricky to get the shims back in, especially on the cylinders 2 and 3
 (inside).  I dab the shim with grease so it will 'stick' to the valve
 and not fly away as I press it into the bucket.  Good luck!

 Mitch Comstock
---------------------------------------
Having also done the valve adjustment, Mitch is correct, you don't have to
remove the top hose to get the valve cover off. You can snake it out. I
removed the hose and  it made the removal of the valve cover much easier.
Plus it's a good time to change that coolant that's probably already a year
old.
Another short cut you can take is to put the bike in gear and use the rear
wheel to turn the engine to the proper place to adjust the valves (spark
plugs out). You don't have to remove the Pickup Coil Cover. I think you can
remove the inspection plug in the Pickup Coil Cover if you want to see the
line up marks.
I didn't take either short cut. I went strictly by the manual. Funny that
way.

Jack E. Rivers

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Carb Synching

Phil,

If it's not to lengthy of a process to describe, how exactly do you go about synching your
carbs?
Do you need any special gauges or tools?

Thanks,
Mike Reed
 

It's really easy, but you do need some special "tools". You need a small
gas tank (I got mine from a small engine repair shop, for free. The guy
had a bunch from old lawnmowers, and a Honda CBX. I walked in, commented
on the CBX, and he ended up giving me the tank, and we BS'd for a
while).

To make a long story short, you have to remove the Kaw gas tank, remove
all the vacuum lines going to the carbs, use vacuum gauges (the manual
says you can use 2, but it's a lot easier if you have four). The gauges
have to have dampeners built in, to cut down on needle flucuation. Hook
the lines from the gauges to the vacuum openings on the carbs. Anyway,
the engine should be warm, and you just adjust the screws on the carb
throttle linkage so the vacuum is the same for all four carbs. Rev the
engine some, to make sure that the vacuum stays the same, and that's
about it. The manual says do 1-2 first, then 3-4, then the one that
connects 1-2 and 3-4. It takes a lot longer to hook up the gauges than
to balance the carbs!

I saw some vacuum gauges in the JC Whitney catalog that were pretty
reasonably priced, (the standard 4 carb setup was $34.99, the "deluxe" 4
carb was $49.99), in the Spring 1997 motorcycle catalog, but I don't
know if that is the current price, nor do I know about the quality of
the gauges. I have an old Honda set. I don't think that the gauges have
to be very accurate, marking wise, as long as they give the same
readings. What I mean is you aren't looking for a specific vacuum (it
will vary anyway), but you are looking for the same reading from all 4
carbs.

FWIW.....Standard 4 carb kit.........PN# 88GJ8813T...........$34.99
.........Deluxe Kit..................PN# 81GJ1752X...........$49.99

Standard 2 carb kit..................PN# 01GJ2110U...........$19.99
Deluxe 2 carb kit....................PN# 01GJ2598P...........$29.99

Catalog # 77J  (Prices Guaranteed until July 31, 1997)
(312) 431-5625
FAX (312) 431-6102

As I said...I don't know about these gauges, they're not what I use, so
I can't say how good they are. I don't even know about the company, I
haven't ordered from them. They sent me the catalog. I've heard both
good & bad about them. I think everybody's heard of them!

Hope this helps!................Phil

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